1. 01:24:56 tenicu:    how are things looking?
2.  
3. 02:59:28 hotwheels: good
4. 02:59:36 hotwheels: at least, on my end
5. 03:00:05 hotwheels: vfec.8 will go live tonight, i'll redirect to it as many boards as it can handle
6. 03:00:46 hotwheels: it can probably handle every non-top25 board based on local tests, but we will knwo for sure how it fares when working with the live site's mysql server
7. 03:01:33 hotwheels: i do not think that josh has anything ready for a parallel test, because he would hae mentioned it when we met yesterday
8. 03:01:36 hotwheels: i can be wrong though
9. 03:01:44 hotwheels: vfec.8 will buy next some more much needed time
10. 03:01:52 hotwheels: (if it works)
11. 03:01:54 josh:      vfec?
12. 03:01:58 hotwheels: if not, the current broken state of affairs will continue
13. 03:02:04 hotwheels: sure, it's the 25th tomorrow isn't it
14. 03:02:33 hotwheels: are we doing a parallel test?
15. 03:02:38 josh:      no?
16. 03:02:57 josh:      I haven't worked on Next much at all since everyone just threw their hands up and gave up
17. 03:03:06 hotwheels: ok so no parallel test
18. 03:03:08 hotwheels: just like i thought
19. 03:03:08 josh:      I have no money and no motivation, literally every single person in the world just gave up
20. 03:04:18 hotwheels: i was planning on testing next+varnish along with vfec+varnish tomorrow if it was ready
21. 03:04:24 hotwheels: but i didn't think it was going to be ready
22. 03:04:57 hotwheels: i have an old i5 server which was just decommissioned from 2ch for vfec.8ch.net
23. 03:05:13 hotwheels: so it won't affect anything you've worked on, i won't be putting it on 05 or 08
24. 03:05:16 josh:      people are probably going to like it more because it's just vichan
25. 03:05:27 hotwheels: if you are giving up though i would like those 2 back
26. 03:05:32 hotwheels: i can put another mysql server on one
27. 03:05:38 josh:      it's very good to see that everyone joined hands and worked on this together like one big happy family
28. 03:05:40 josh:      that must be nice
29. 03:06:06 hotwheels: 05 and 08 are the better servers
30. 03:06:16 hotwheels: they're i7 sandy bridge, 14 is i5 sandy bridge
31. 03:06:22 josh:      take whatever you want mate it's your shit, no one seems to care anyways
32. 03:06:24 hotwheels: also there's 2 of them versus 1
33. 03:06:25 josh:      so whatever
34. 03:07:05 hotwheels: i care, but i don't know how to help you
35. 03:07:17 hotwheels: if you have some other way i can help you other than give you mroe money
36. 03:07:29 josh:      you literally bragged about sitting around being unproductive and playing video games in December months after you abandoned every single thing I asked you to do
37. 03:07:39 josh:      You didn't create static pages, you didn't finish secure tripcodes
38. 03:07:44 josh:      and nobody for half a year wanted to help
39. 03:07:53 hotwheels: those two things wouldn't solve the current situation
40. 03:07:54 josh:      The logic was that I was being paid so therefore nobody else should want to do anything
41. 03:07:59 hotwheels: as unfortunate as not finishng them was
42. 03:08:00 josh:      no, but they'd show a token amount of effot
43. 03:08:20 josh:      you didn't do anything until I had problems, and your reaction was to start working on something else
44. 03:08:31 josh:      the only person in the entire world who gives a shit about Next is OdiliTime and he's not going to write code or finance this
45. 03:08:40 josh:      he's going to finance Endchan or whatever
46. 03:09:13 hotwheels: i think sometihng happened irl to odili
47. 03:09:18 hotwheels: he was always so careful about being doxed
48. 03:09:29 hotwheels: now he seems to not care
49. 03:09:31 hotwheels: perhaps he lost his job
50. 03:11:35 josh:      after fixing the issue with the captchas the site seems to load fast enough
51. 03:11:53 hotwheels: so we should do a parallel test?
52. 03:11:58 josh:      the varnish thing doesn't seem appealing because to splice up the document (i.e. creating a different request per each action menu) involves 1 request per post
53. 03:12:03 josh:      so varnish seems less attractive as a result
54. 03:12:14 josh:      and I'm not sure how to go about writing varnish script so that it only caches anonymous or something
55. 03:12:22 josh:      mate idk. it's your site. next is as done as im going to get it.
56. 03:12:38 josh:      i've got enough to live on until the end of my term here
57. 03:12:45 josh:      after that I don't think anyone wants more of me
58. 03:14:05 hotwheels: did you do any further testing after you fixed the captcha-ip-indexing problem?
59. 03:14:16 josh:      I don't have to. The site doesn't take 5 seconds to load
60. 03:14:22 josh:      people are casually using it to post egyptian girls
61. 03:14:32 josh:      average load time now is like 300ms
62. 03:14:34 hotwheels: i mean load testing
63. 03:14:36 josh:      down from 10000ms
64. 03:14:44 josh:      I think they redirected /b/
65. 03:14:47 josh:      and it worked
66. 03:14:49 hotwheels: who is `they'?
67. 03:14:51 josh:      ron
68. 03:14:53 hotwheels: ok
69. 03:14:54 josh:      before he gave up too
70. 03:14:56 hotwheels: wait
71. 03:14:57 josh:      along with everyone else who gave up
72. 03:15:00 hotwheels: why did he give up if /b/ worked?
73. 03:15:04 hotwheels: this /b/ thing is new information to me
74. 03:15:07 josh:      because it has too many loops
75. 03:15:12 hotwheels: lol, fuck the loops
76. 03:15:16 hotwheels: i'm not getting into this again
77. 03:15:25 josh:      because it's on php and has too many loops and it's written by a lolcow who rapes and murders boys and women
78. 03:15:30 josh:      these are all things that make bad software
79. 03:15:40 hotwheels: if /b/ worked why isn't /b/ still redirecting
80. 03:15:46 josh:      because everyone gave up
81. 03:15:49 josh:      and nobody likes next
82. 03:15:50 hotwheels: who is everyone?
83. 03:15:52 josh:      they want vichan
84. 03:15:56 josh:      every single person who is currently alive
85. 03:16:00 josh:      and probably some who are dead
86. 03:16:04 hotwheels: how did you fail to mention this also when we met
87. 03:16:12 josh:      because it was already a week old at that point
88. 03:16:17 josh:      i fixed it 2 days after we made an ultimatum
89. 03:16:19 josh:      everyone gave up
90. 03:16:40 hotwheels: how many requests per second did it manage during this /b/ test
91. 03:16:45 hotwheels: i was under the impression this test failed
92. 03:16:48 josh:      dunno. i wasn't doing the testing.
93. 03:16:53 hotwheels: is beta.8ch.net still operational? can i do another test right now?
94. 03:16:58 josh:      if you'd like
95. 03:17:00 hotwheels: ron must have had a reason to give up
96. 03:17:01 hotwheels: i'll call him
97. 03:17:03 hotwheels: thank you
98. 03:17:04 josh:      the loops
99. 03:17:08 hotwheels: a real reason
100. 03:17:12 hotwheels: that's hearsay
101. 03:17:16 josh:      he doesn't like me i dont think
102. 03:17:25 josh:      i sounded clueless when i started asking questions about "quadratic time"
103. 03:17:31 josh:      I'm not educated in programming, I just do programming
104. 03:17:34 josh:      so I don't know terminology.
105. 03:17:52 hotwheels: quadratic time is O(n^2) i think
106. 03:18:05 hotwheels: or is it O(2n^2)
107. 03:18:09 hotwheels: either way it doesn't matter
108. 03:18:18 linear:    the 2n isn't important yeah
109. 03:18:35 linear:    quadratic is a polynomial of degree 2
110. 03:19:01 linear:    so n^2 and so on, but still polynomial
111. 03:19:27 josh:      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3hlRULLzDU
112. 03:19:32 josh:      i think this is going to be my giving up song
113. 03:19:59 hotwheels: hahaha
114. 03:20:01 hotwheels: oh man
115. 03:20:04 hotwheels: anyway, i left ron a message
116. 03:22:30 hotwheels: if next handled the load fine with the PGSQL thing fixed, i will pitch having RQI add varnish support using events to jim when i see him this friday. they know VCL already
117. 03:22:43 hotwheels: either way i'm going forwards with vfec.8 to buy time
118. 03:22:51 hotwheels: thank you for this information
119. 03:23:16 josh:      you should porbably just stick with whatever you're calling the front end thing
120. 03:23:19 josh:      it's vichan, that's what people want
121. 03:23:20 hotwheels: perhaps i could even do it myself if i tried. i am partial to vichan though. as much as it sucks at least i know how it works
122. 03:23:27 josh:      everyone is going to jump ship when they have to deal with a new UI
123. 03:23:33 hotwheels: everyone already has jumped ship
124. 03:23:36 hotwheels: our bandwidth is down 50%
125. 03:23:53 hotwheels: it doesn't much matter what we do at this point
126. 03:24:19 hotwheels: 50% is a big jump from just blocking google images
127. 03:24:27 hotwheels: i know why it's really down, and so does everyone here
128. 03:24:42 hotwheels: hiroyuki is admining 4chan more fairly than moot, he added a news board even
129. 03:24:55 hotwheels: and our broken cripplechan cannot compete with that
130. 03:24:57 nunufag:   that board is mostly dead though
131. 03:24:59 hotwheels: that'd be all. thanks guys
132. 03:25:02 nunufag:   the news board he added
133. 03:26:15 linear:    posting isn't down as much yet
134. 03:26:17 hotwheels: it's actually good our bandwidth is down, less of a financial hit. if VFEC works i can start winding down servers which are doing NFS work right now. then it will be more resilient if 4chan has another "cuckening".
135. 03:26:18 linear:    the site still has a userbase
136. 03:26:38 josh:      a userbase that hates everyone up at the top lol
137. 03:26:41 hotwheels: i'm not crying over this, trust me.  
138. 03:26:55 linear:    josh: a userbase that hates everyone*
139. 03:27:05 hotwheels: ^
140. 03:28:10 hotwheels: most posts on imageboards are negative. actions and words are much different. do you think half the people who post on /pol/ would rail against niggers and jews in real life? it's just a place to blow off steam. it doesn't really matter even what you're talking about
141. 03:28:14 hotwheels: for many imageboards are therapy
142. 03:28:48 hotwheels: it doesn't bother me that we're not liked. every IB has a honeymoon period where the admins can do no wrong and the mods are gods
143. 03:28:52 hotwheels: the honeymoon always ends
144. 03:29:29 josh:      the deck was stacked against me, i'll never understand this
145. 03:29:32 josh:      I really do have negative charisma
146. 03:29:34 hotwheels: anyway, VFEC tomorrow. pitch varnish/VCL support for Next to Jim, reposess troi05 and troi08
147. 03:29:39 hotwheels: my todo list
148. 03:29:40 hotwheels: thanks
149. 03:29:44 josh:      People immediately, immediately decided they were all going to make their own projects
150. 03:30:23 hotwheels: no one immediately decided anything. it took me weeks to dust off read.php after the intial problems began
151. 03:30:24 linear:    A lot of people were heavily biased against a PHP framework though
152. 03:30:27 hotwheels: and three or four failed migrations
153. 03:30:37 hotwheels: your timeline is all messed up in your head, so get it straight
154. 03:30:45 josh:      I'm not even talking about you
155. 03:30:51 josh:      you're so narcissistic
156. 03:30:57 josh:      The very same week Next was announced
157. 03:31:04 hotwheels: lynxchan was around before next
158. 03:31:05 josh:      both Lynxchan and Czak's ruby Vichan2 were announced
159. 03:31:17 hotwheels: czaks told me about the ruby chan before it too
160. 03:31:17 josh:      Lynx wanted to help with Next
161. 03:31:21 josh:      and in under a day he changed that  
162. 03:31:32 hotwheels: da, because they weren't going to be paid
163. 03:31:45 hotwheels: they both pitched to me when they thought they may be paid
164. 03:31:52 hotwheels: next had nothing to do with those 2
165. 03:31:55 josh:      and then they did it for free out of spite
166. 03:32:05 hotwheels: czaks has released a prototype?
167. 03:32:08 hotwheels: or is it just lynx?
168. 03:32:37 nunufag:   just lynx i think
169. 03:32:48 nunufag:   i didn't even know vichan2 was even a thing
170. 03:33:26 hotwheels: czaks is my friend, although we don't always see eye to eye. we talked just a few days ago though, i was talking to him about my planned vichan commits and asked his ideas. he moved recently to warsaw and is looking for a job there
171. 03:33:30 hotwheels: i highly doubt czaks has worked on a chan
172. 03:33:53 hotwheels: someone came into #vichan-devel on 6irc asking czaks about repository activity and czaks says vichan is on hiatus
173. 03:34:07 hotwheels: i keep into contact with hm regularly since we worked together for years before i met you
174. 03:34:21 josh:      Even if he did write not a single line he did say he would
175. 03:34:23 hotwheels: he's unreliable and a bit of a drunk but i know him
176. 03:34:33 josh:      Vichan2 was a thing announced in the first Next thread, and he decided to maintain Infinity
177. 03:34:58 hotwheels: czaks infinity maintenance consists of just keeping 8chan.pl alive, which he made way before next was announced
178. 03:35:01 hotwheels: or is it 8ch.pl?
179. 03:35:04 hotwheels: i forget the url
180. 03:35:30 hotwheels: i remember him asking for help setting it up, people on vichan (pl.vichan.net) were asking him to let them make their own boards like 8chan
181. 03:35:34 hotwheels: after 8chan became "big"
182. 03:36:23 hotwheels: DOMAIN NAME:           8ch.pl
183. 03:36:23 hotwheels: registrant type:       individual
184. 03:36:23 hotwheels: nameservers:           ns2.chanowa.org.
185. 03:36:23 hotwheels:                        s2.chanowa.org.
186. 03:36:23 hotwheels: created:               2015.02.14 23:49:11
187. 03:36:33 hotwheels: yes, just like i thought. i'm not losing my mind
188. 03:37:11 hotwheels: czaks doesn't have it out for you. you've made these two into your own mental enemies for reasons that escape me. they didn't see you were working and then immediately team up against you.
189. 03:37:42 hotwheels: czaks was only upset that i didn't choose to advertise his effort on 8chan over yours
190. 03:37:47 hotwheels: as was lynx
191. 03:38:56 josh:      Lynx sends me creepy shit
192. 03:39:07 josh:      Like he shows up any time I'm mentioned, shills actively on beta. and /next/
193. 03:39:14 josh:      He sent me weird messages on Twitter too
194. 03:39:29 josh:      He gives me Obamatron vibes
195. 03:39:45 josh:      I don't consider czaks my "enemy", and I never said that
196. 03:39:52 josh:      I just pointed out that anybody who could have helped did not
197. 03:40:08 josh:      A few heavy donators from /v/ supplied a few hundred dollars each per month and that's all that kept the project going
198. 03:40:13 josh:      Nobody else gave even a little code  
199. 03:40:22 josh:      you made like 3 contributions total the entire year of 2015, uguu made 1
200. 03:40:23 josh:      the rest was me
201. 03:40:33 hotwheels: so?
202. 03:40:46 josh:      it was easy to keep going when people were still like, excited
203. 03:41:06 josh:      through November to now every single person in the world decided I was Hitler incarnate
204. 03:41:18 josh:      and they seemed to prefer broken code that wasn't mine for the sake of it not being mine
205. 03:41:21 josh:      and it's like, why bother
206. 03:41:26 josh:      I cannot talk to people and win them over
207. 03:41:29 josh:      and my merits don't matter
208. 03:41:32 josh:      and nobody wants to get involved  
209. 03:41:34 josh:      and nobody wants to fund it
210. 03:41:37 josh:      so there's no impetus
211. 03:41:38 josh:      nobody
212. 03:41:39 josh:      cares
213. 03:41:44 hotwheels: people did fund it for 6 months
214. 03:41:50 josh:      and that time is over now
215. 03:41:53 hotwheels: indeed
216. 03:41:53 josh:      nobody cares [anymore]
217. 03:42:14 hotwheels: only so many migrations could fail before people give up. imagine being on the other side of the table
218. 03:42:24 josh:      Ron has also decided he doesn't want to work with me so that line is gone
219. 03:42:28 hotwheels: especially with [most of] the site broken the whole time so a time element being involved
220. 03:42:32 hotwheels: ah, i'm sorry to hear that
221. 03:42:33 josh:      everything I saw as so great leaving Japan is just dead now
222. 03:43:27 hotwheels: if i were on the other side of the table i'd certainly be against us, because that's how chans work. mob mentality is strong, that's how 8chan became flush with users in the first place.
223. 03:43:57 josh:      8chan was the only real hope at having an alternative to 4chan
224. 03:44:17 josh:      at least until nntpchan becomes a thing if ever
225. 03:44:26 josh:      part of what makes a chan fun is activity
226. 03:44:27 hotwheels: if it does it will be for nerds only. you know how it is.
227. 03:44:32 josh:      it doesn't matter how strong the groundwork is if nobody uses it
228. 03:45:56 hotwheels: okay. i'm going to let users know my plans, and get to work on setting up the vfec.8 server tonight. i hope it works, just that something works through all this failure.
229. 03:46:27 hotwheels: i'll pitch varnish support for next on friday. i can probably get approval because i'll soon be the manager there anyway.
230. 03:47:17 hotwheels: if i can't, i can get approval once i actually become the manager and know who's working on what and who is free and pitch it with more knowledge, but that won't be for a whle due to visa issues for the outgoing manager
231. 03:48:18 hotwheels: i think i'll also talk to czaks some more, since he has no job. 8chan still has 10BTC in reserve.
232. 03:48:28 hotwheels: he takes payment in bitcoin only.
233. 03:48:35 hotwheels: since you've given up and aren't staff please part here.
234. 03:48:53 josh:      lol, why do you do this
235. 03:49:04 josh:      [express hopelessness because nobody cares]
236. 03:49:16 josh:      [reaffirm hopelessness] [say that you're going to pay someone else] [get mad at me]
237. 03:49:20 josh:      you're destructive as fuck
238. 03:49:29 josh:      you constantly prune useful people around you in bizarre fits
239. 03:49:39 josh:      and seriously, if you're going to be all holier than thou
240. 03:49:44 josh:      I fucking carried you like an infant
241. 03:49:48 josh:      you asked me to empty your piss jars
242. 03:49:55 josh:      if you're going to pull this fucking shit on me
243. 03:49:58 josh:      you are the worst kind of person
244. 03:50:08 hotwheels: do you want to stay in here? is that why you're so mad right now?
245. 03:50:24 josh:      I want you to stop being a bizarre sociopathic hobgoblin that treats people like tools
246. 03:50:48 josh:      like oh boy i have the josh     hammer the czakswrench and the lynxdrill
247. 03:50:51 josh:      what am i going to fix this problem with
248. 03:50:56 josh:      i just have so much money and so many options
249. 03:50:59 josh:      well the josh     hammer sure is heavy
250. 03:51:01 josh:      better get rid of him
251. 03:51:07 hotwheels: you've expressed the situation is hopeless, i can't convince you otherwise (i'm not even going to try), so i'm coming up with an alternate plan
252. 03:51:14 josh:      exactly, you're not even going to try
253. 03:51:17 josh:      you're not going to pitch ideas
254. 03:51:22 josh:      or huddle up and think of stuff
255. 03:51:23 hotwheels: i have none to pitch
256. 03:51:24 josh:      you're just going to give up
257. 03:51:29 josh:      and when the next thing fails
258. 03:51:32 josh:      you're going to give up on that
259. 03:51:39 josh:      and then you'll give up on 8chan and work on 2ch with Jim
260. 03:51:43 josh:      and live happily ever after
261. 03:51:49 josh:      and everyone else you've met along the way
262. 03:51:52 josh:      can go fuck themselves
263. 03:52:09 hotwheels: how would you solve the current problem?
264. 03:52:31 josh:      What is the current problem?
265. 03:52:34 hotwheels: i'm not meeting you at an emotional level because this is not an emotional problem, it's a technical problem
266. 03:52:48 josh:      That's the first step. precisely diagnosis the issue.
267. 03:52:54 josh:      You don't even know what's holding it back anymore
268. 03:52:58 josh:      You have no idea what the issue even is
269. 03:53:09 hotwheels: right which is why i called ron
270. 03:53:18 hotwheels: i was done ten minutes ago, waiting for more info
271. 03:53:25 hotwheels: then you continued with the hopelessness line
272. 03:53:27 josh:      Why would Ron know?
273. 03:53:33 hotwheels: because as you said above, he did the test
274. 03:53:38 josh:      Ron looked around at some stack traces and bitched about loops before fucking off to fix your thing
275. 03:53:39 hotwheels: and he came to the independent conclusion of hopelessness
276. 03:53:52 josh:      I was wrong, we didn't test after I fixed the issue.
277. 03:53:57 josh:      I was going to add Varnish too but encounterd a problem
278. 03:53:59 josh:      and I finally faltered.
279. 03:54:16 josh:      It was between fixing the pgsql and captcha issue and deciding to move forward with Varnish
280. 03:54:21 hotwheels: ok, so all the reasoning above is built on incorrect facts
281. 03:54:22 josh:      that my big fuse finally burnt out
282. 03:55:28 hotwheels: so really what we need to do is a parallel test, which is what i thought an hour ago when i said
283. 03:55:29 hotwheels: 03:02:33 hotwheels: are we doing a parallel test?
284. 03:55:39 josh:      I don't know if we're ready for a parallel test
285. 03:55:40 hotwheels: sigh
286. 03:55:52 josh:      I don't know anything at this point, it's been a week since I touched coude
287. 03:55:53 josh:      code*
288. 03:55:59 hotwheels: yes i know that
289. 03:58:23 hotwheels: so, here's the correct diagnosis of the problem. Next is still promising, but the lead developer wants to quit due to a combination of a loss of user support, a lack of funds and feeling as if even those who can make the decisions are against him.
290. 03:58:31 hotwheels: so it is an emotional issue and not a technical one and i was wrong
291. 03:58:33 hotwheels: is that right?
292. 03:58:52 josh:      As far as I know. I don't know what the next step is and no one is involved enough for it to matter.
293. 03:59:08 hotwheels: okay. to be honest i also think the situation is hopeless.
294. 03:59:17 hotwheels: we're more on the same page than you know
295. 03:59:41 hotwheels: it seems like it's just one thing after another
296. 04:00:04 hotwheels: the blind cannot lead the blind. i can't lead you out of hopelessness when i am myself hopeless.
297. 04:00:54 hotwheels: i think next can be gotten to work, but that you are rightfully burned out.
298. 04:01:44 hotwheels: i mean, you've worked on this for over six months. you've barely left your apartment since you started, and it's pretty much all you've thought of. i have no idea how to motivate someone so profoundly burned out, especially with failed migration after failed migration
299. 04:01:57 hotwheels: odili, by the way, is also of the opinion that next can be gotten to work. we also talked about it.
300. 04:02:06 josh:      he's one of the only remaining lights
301. 04:02:20 hotwheels: he's also of the opinion that Varnish will help
302. 04:02:31 josh:      The issue with varnish is the bits of responsive content
303. 04:02:36 hotwheels: definitely not in a split-page way though
304. 04:02:37 josh:      I don't know how I would get the lists to work
305. 04:02:48 josh:      well, there's not much else to be done
306. 04:02:52 hotwheels: you would have the application set a logged in cookie, varnish would read that
307. 04:03:04 hotwheels: and pass requests down where the user is logged in (ignore the cache)
308. 04:03:08 josh:      most people who will be logged in will not have general permissions
309. 04:03:24 hotwheels: it's fine. varnish only has to cache to most-common-case to be successful
310. 04:03:31 josh:      i imagine most will even have an account at some point, especially if we add a monetized captcha pass thing.
311. 04:03:52 josh:      That's why I wanted to exclude specific parts of the page
312. 04:03:55 hotwheels: i don't think so. maybe more people would log in in that case, but not most
313. 04:04:05 hotwheels: chans are 90% lurkers. i have logs to prove it
314. 04:04:23 josh:      the issue with trying to get varnish to work that way is that Laravel works using a singular token
315. 04:04:28 josh:      There is the laravel_session cookie and nothing else
316. 04:04:36 josh:      from that all other meaningful information is derived
317. 04:04:54 hotwheels: simple patch. on log in set_cookie, on logout set_cookie(cookie_name, null, 0)
318. 04:05:01 hotwheels: it's a hack, yes.
319. 04:05:58 hotwheels: i know laravel uses its one cookie, but nothing stopping adding another. they didn't overload that function, did they?
320. 04:06:13 hotwheels: they may even have a class which does it. `Cookie(  ï¾Ÿã€œï¾Ÿ )et` or whatever.
321. 04:06:19 hotwheels: lol, sorry. my auto smiley kicked in
322. 04:06:27 josh:      No, there's a facade to do that  
323. 04:06:30 josh:      A cookie:: facade
324. 04:06:34 josh:      it's a simple process but I fear hacks
325. 04:06:50 josh:      the code is relatively well held together for being made by one psychopath over the course of a full pregnancy term
326. 04:07:40 josh:      Okay  
327. 04:07:56 josh:      we can do an laravel_user_id cookie
328. 04:08:00 josh:      but all this will be is an integer
329. 04:08:09 josh:      if it's anything other than an integer or a not set at all
330. 04:08:13 josh:      varnish can cache anything not in /cp/
331. 04:08:18 josh:      that will be like 90% of requests
332. 04:08:29 hotwheels: that's fine. VCL provides this via req.http.Cookie
333. 04:08:32 hotwheels: it will work well i imagine
334. 04:11:51 hotwheels: i'll let the sociopathic hobgoblin thing go. i am pretty crazy, i know. i also will leave troi05 and troi08 alone. let me know how it goes josh
335. 04:12:09 hotwheels: i'll continue with the thing i worked on to give more time, but if you can do it by tonight i'll drop it
336. 04:12:17 hotwheels: and we can do another test
337. 04:12:47 hotwheels: if not, even if i do make vichan work better i'm still behind next, no matter how many people leave over the UI or whatever
338. 04:13:02 josh:      I would advise, internally, setting expectations after I've gotten off Linode entirely and we meet up with that guy in Kapputtatn or whatever
339. 04:13:12 hotwheels: the sheer amount of time and hacks it will take to make vichan like next is frightening
340. 04:13:27 hotwheels: OK
341. 04:14:14 hotwheels: court is adjourned. i know that nunufag is sitting there reading every line of this and taking notes
342. 04:14:32 hotwheels: hello nunufag, how are you?
343. 04:14:38 nunufag:   fine
344. 04:14:56 nunufag:   how are you hotwheels
345. 04:15:04 hotwheels: quite well for a sociopathic hobgoblin
346. 04:15:11 nunufag:   lel
347.  
348.  
349. I think things are pretty much settled but call Ron anyway. He tells me...
350.  
351. 1) He never gave up on Next;
352. 2) He never said that for-loops or "quadratic time" was the problem;
353. 3) He never withdrew a job offer that josh was going to use to support himself.
354.  
355. With this new information I confronted josh:
356.  
357.  
358. 12:38:03 hotwheels: josh: we need to talk when you get back on
359. 12:48:57 josh:      @ hotwheels, pm
360. 12:54:58 hotwheels: that pause was me locking things down. i hope i got everything.
361. 12:54:59 hotwheels: josh: hi, sorry, no can do. we started this here and have to end it here. i was thinking of letting this go but it's eating at me. i called ron shortly after our conversation was over. he said that he never told you he wouldn't pay you for that unrelated contract. he also said that he never gave up on next, and the last thing he said to you was that he was going to be out for a few days
362. 12:54:59 hotwheels: but offered his help to you fi you needed it. why would you lie to me about this? did you think i woldn't really call him?
363. 12:55:23 hotwheels: i can't work with people who lie to me. no matter what job they're doing.
364. 12:55:34 josh:      I didn't lie to you, I made assumptions based on his actions
365. 12:55:36 hotwheels: ron and i tried to also understand this.
366. 12:55:40 josh:      I told you exactly what I believed.
367. 12:55:52 hotwheels: except you didn't preface it with "i believe"
368. 12:56:05 josh:      Is that not implied? This is what I believe so that's why I'm saying it?
369. 12:56:20 josh:      Ron basically stopped talking to me, dismissed everything I said, talked down to me, began working on Infinity's front-end controller
370. 12:56:26 hotwheels: i also showed ron the conversation and he didn't get the belief thing either
371. 12:56:38 josh:      So you think I am actively manipulating you for what purpose
372. 12:56:49 hotwheels: i'm not sure why
373. 12:56:57 josh:      So do you not think that is a problem in your logic
374. 12:56:59 hotwheels: but i don't have to know why
375. 12:57:02 josh:      Or do you think I am horribly irrational
376. 12:57:04 josh:      Okay
377. 12:57:21 hotwheels: not really, mochi manipulates me all the time. it makes sense to her but never to me
378. 12:57:28 hotwheels: i view that like this
379. 12:57:56 hotwheels: she left me here alone for 36 hours with no warning a few days ago. i told you about it. i'm sure lying to me and telling me she got in a taxi accident after leaving her cousin's made perfect sense to her
380. 12:58:13 hotwheels: but when i brought her cousin here and came to the truth, well
381. 12:58:15 josh:      You are comparing me to an uneducated Filipina cleaning lady.
382. 12:58:27 hotwheels: yes, i am.
383. 12:58:38 josh:      I'll tell you how it appears to me. If you still don't care that's on you.
384. 12:58:45 hotwheels: sure
385. 12:59:21 josh:      I worked tirelessly on this project and every single time I appealed to you or anyone you know I was shut down. Jim Watkins shuffled out of a coffee shop in a tantrum after I refused to close my source's code. You repeatedly failed me when I asked you to help me with the simplest tasks. Trying to get Ron to help led to being berated and belittled over technical aspects like for loops.
386. 12:59:42 hotwheels: ron said he never did that as well
387. 12:59:57 hotwheels: he said he gave you a short lesson about big O notation, but didn't say that Next was hopeless, or that it was hopeless because of for-loops
388. 01:00:12 josh:      Aside from Odili and Johann I have been emotionally battered and repeatedly failed by you and the people you come into contact with. I am currently at the lowest point of the entire project and when I appeal to you, you confide that you are also hopeless and are now accusing me of being a liar and an emotional manipulator when I have been frank and honest with you for almost a year now.
389. 01:00:15 hotwheels: we compared logs. the last thing he said to you was that he was going to be out for a few days, which was the truth
390. 01:00:26 hotwheels: ron has no reason to lie to you, he's a very busy person. i only call him if it's an emergency.
391. 01:00:34 hotwheels: or to me. 8chan is nothing to him but a toy.
392. 01:00:40 josh:      He gave up on the project, I don't know how that isn't obvious
393. 01:00:47 hotwheels: he said to me he didn't
394. 01:00:53 josh:      Well I wish I had known that
395. 01:00:56 hotwheels: i think it's obvious to you because you're projecting on other people
396. 01:01:02 hotwheels: and went a week just building this narrative
397. 01:01:03 josh:      And you're not doing the same?
398. 01:01:12 josh:      I understand your point of view but you don't appear to understand mine
399. 01:01:26 josh:      The amount of time, effort, energy, money, and physical freedom I've given up to make it this far is tremendous
400. 01:01:35 josh:      And every single time I hit a bump you act like it's all over and I never gave a shit
401. 01:01:37 josh:      It's infuriating
402. 01:02:47 hotwheels: more projection. this is the first time i've locked you out. everyone here who knows me knows that if i feel something is really wrong that's what i do. i have never felt like something was really wrong before. i'm not good at giving emotional support to people, that's true. i'm a systems admin, not a concellor(sp).
403. 01:03:15 josh:      Dealing with people is a part of the job.
404. 01:03:20 josh:      You can't treat everyone like your maids.
405. 01:03:28 josh:      StephenLynx will never help you now because of how you've treated him.
406. 01:03:37 josh:      I hope you're confident in your choices.
407. 01:03:44 josh:      Bye.
408.  
409. 01:03:47 << josh ([email protected]) has left #8chan-staff (Leaving)  
410.  
411. 01:03:49 hotwheels: i haven't treated you like a maid. i found you an apartment, i helped you set up servers, i vouched for you before 8chan's users and before its owners
412. 01:03:51 hotwheels: goodbye.
413. 01:03:58 hotwheels: well, that's over.
414. 01:03:59 nunufag:   wow
415. 01:04:32 hotwheels: i have a full clone of infinity-next. i will pitch to jim and RQI to continue it.
416. 01:04:49 hotwheels: i will continue with my VFEC. i've also been talking to lynx, he says he'll add some stuff that's important to 8chan.
417. 01:04:58 hotwheels: i can't have liars around me. you all know that. i just can't do it.
418. 01:05:16 hotwheels: someone who will lie to me about a small thing will later lie about a big thing. it always happens.
419. 01:05:26 hotwheels: and ron canceling his contracting isn't even a small thing.
420. 01:05:43 nunufag:   josh:      honestly seems very stressed at this point, i mean considering his entire life has been infinty next for these past few months
421. 01:05:57 nunufag:   maybe he just needs to cool off?
422. 01:06:41 hotwheels: he made his choice. no explanation for his lies other than i believe them to be true.
423. 01:06:47 hotwheels: i believe donald trump will be the next president of the US.
424. 01:07:12 hotwheels: i feel like i'm going to throw up, so i'm going to lay down. VFEC is delayed for a day. thanks guys. if you have any problems with how i handled this please feel free to let me know.
425. 01:07:31 hotwheels: i just, he even told me that he won't work on Next until i go with some guy in katipunan to find drugs for him.
426. 01:07:35 hotwheels: i can't do this anymore.
427. 01:08:04 hotwheels: 04:13:02 josh:      I would advise, internally, setting expectations after I've gotten off Linode entirely and we meet up with that guy in Kapputtatn or whatever
428. 01:08:08 hotwheels: that's what that was about.
429. 01:10:59 faggettss: oh wow
430. 01:11:39 faggettss: withdrawl is a bitch i guess
431. 01:12:42 nunufag:   well it wouldn't be *dramachan* without drama in the irc aswell :^)
432. 01:13:07 linear:    faggetttss: It's for modafinial or something similar, so that's not the case, I think he just thought it'd help him concentrate/work/etc
433. 01:13:20 hotwheels: yes it's not withdrawals.
434.  
435. 01:13:33 >> josh ([email protected]) has joined #8chan-staff
436. 01:13:33 -- Mode #8chan-staff [+h josh] by Hachi-chan
437.  
438. 01:13:38 faggettss: ohhhhhhhhhh
439. 01:13:39 faggettss: ok
440. 01:13:43 hotwheels: 01:03:49 hotwheels: i haven't treated you like a maid. i found you an apartment, i helped you set up servers, i vouched for you before 8chan's users and before its owners
441. 01:13:43 hotwheels: 01:03:51 hotwheels: goodbye.
442. 01:13:43 hotwheels: 01:03:58 hotwheels: well, that's over.
443.  
444. 01:17:50 << josh ([email protected]) has left #8chan-staff
445.  
446. 01:18:00 hotwheels: i guess he joined for that ?
447. 01:18:28 toolshed:  Hopefully josh was right about people hating him and not his code, so the userbase lets some steam off when you tell then that he left?
448. 01:18:38 linear:    They hate both.